Module 4.6 Building community–discussion and webinar

Module 4 Webinar: Play-based and inquiry learning is differentiated and inclusive

Panel Members

Facilitator: Associate Professor Elizabeth Rouse

Dr Kim Davies

Principal, Ashwood School: Mrs Helen Hatherly

Foundation teacher, Ashwood School: Neisha Gange

Assistant Principal, Keelonith Primary School: Ms Samantha Birrell  

Elizabeth Rouse (Liz) I'd like to introduce myself. My name's Elizabeth Rouse and I'm an Associate Professor in Education in Early Childhood Education at Deakin University. 

And before we interview the panel members and talk about today's webinar, I'd just like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we meet today and pay my respects to elders, past and present and emerging.  

So I'll start by introducing our panel members. So today we have on our panel...today's seminar is looking at differentiation in play-based learning and inquiry.  

And we have on our panel a number of really exciting people. 

We've been very fortunate to have Helen Hatherly, who is the Principal at Ashwood School, and she has many years experience in working, particularly in play-based learning programs in her school. 

And we also have the Assistant Principal, Sam Birrell who's at a new school in Greenvale called Keelonith Primary School, which is an inclusion school and so a really exciting model that the department are doing. 

And we also have from Ashwood Primary School, Neisha Gange, who is a Foundation teacher. 

And to facilitate and process some of the discussion we have Dr. Kim Davies who is also with us at DeakinUniversity, who has a wealth of experience in differentiated learning and working with children with additional needs. 

So this is going to be a really exciting seminar and I'm really excited to be able to host and facilitate this. So what we going to be focusing on today for this seminar is we'll start by looking at picking up on some of the things that were in the Module.

So looking at play-based inquiry learning for differentiated learning and how that has increased access, participation and enhance learning outcomes. And we'll hear from each of our panellists about the approaches that they've taken in their schools.

Both these schools have different approaches. Ashwood has a very strong play-based, approach, while Keelonith has a really strong inquiry approach.

So I think together we can bring both aspects of this - of this Module together in the, in the presentation. 

We'll also get some perspectives from the panel around parents and how parents are feeling about the play and the play-based inquiry and how this has supported them to see their children as learners and the learning opportunities they've seen for their children. We had wanted to bring a parent in to this seminar, but unfortunately, due to Covid restrictions and school closures and parents teaching from home. When we were planning this, we just felt it was not really appropriate to put that on a parent at this point in time. 

And we're also going to hear particularly from Neisha about how the teachers think about differentiation through their - through the play and how they plan for that, and how they purposefully use play to differentiation. 

So I'm….going to start by throwing straight to Helen and Helen, I thought I might ask you to share your experiences, particularly from a specialist school perspective.

And one of the reasons I think your perceptions are really critical is that many of our teachers are working with children in the mainstream schools who have additional learning needs and are quite often having to think about how they differentiate that for learning for those particular children.

And so I'd love to hear your experiences about play and how you've used play to differentiate learning and how you've seen these children as learners grow and evolve and develop in that play-based and inquiry learning approach. So I'll go to you first. 

Helen Hatherly (Helen) 

Thanks very much Liz and yeah, it's great to be here and I hope you've all -- everyone who's sitting out there - has had a good day and are relaxed, now ready to do some further learning, and it will of course be all differentiated won't it? Because we'll have all come from different parts of Victoria and we've all had different experiences during the day. And I think that's a little bit like what it's like when the children come to school, when the children come to any school, they're going to bring their own experiences with them. And so therefore as teachers and educators, we need to meet them where they are and probably we've found that to be best done at school is by learning-to-play and playing-to-learn. We've found that it's an automatic need and it's probably the best way to teach children is by meeting them where they are on their terms and in their type of learning. And through play we've been able to learn and monitor how they learn and then we can also therefore monitor progress. But it's all at their own level.

So we find that teachers, with play-based learning, it leads to flexibility in the teacher's thinking. And in the way you plan your curriculum. And probably we've noticed that it's really important in a child's development of both social skills and their emotional skills, such as beginning to see how they develop positive relationships with their peers. So sometimes at school they've come from being at home, or being in a small group, and then they come and join a large school, and it could be a small class, but they're still a member of a larger school. So as they play together, they learn to get along with each other. And they learn the skills of how to co-operate and how to communicate effectively. But most importantly, our students are learning how to problem-solve and resolve conflicts as they play. And sometimes they won't have had to do any of this thinking. But they tend to be able to do this through play and then we can monitor the play and create play for them to develop the skills which - ones we see as their priorities. How does that sound Liz?  

Liz Yeah, no that sounds fantastic. I think that's really interesting and I liked the way that you're focused on the personal and the social, because I do, do a lot of work where we look at the general capabilities. And it's that personal and social capability around making connections and learning to interact and problem-solve. And I think one of the other really exciting things that you were saying is about that conflict negotiation as well. It's about how to get along with others and how to be able to build some of that social understanding of who you are in a learning space. 

Helen And that's really important as far as encouraging the children to take risks. Because as we know, when we're taking a risk, we're going to learn hopefully by that risk we've taken, in order to take an even bigger risk the next time. And that will help them with engaging their imagination and then solving their own problems. Because that's going to give them those valuable skills that support both social, physical and cognitive development. And we probably have found here at school that children will be entering our school at various stages of development. Whether that's language development, play development, and their social skill development, but also in understanding who they are. And that's probably another reason why we've found the play program to be so successful.

And sometimes, you know, when I go out to visit children at their kinders or their childcare centres or at pre-school, I see them as being bystanders I suppose, in their learning. But they're also bystanders in their play. They haven't quite learnt yet what the next stage is. They've been spending some time observing play and now they can actually, by structuring play time, play skill time, they can actually learn the skills of playing. 

Liz I think that's really important and I like the way you talked about the fact that you have children with different levels of abilities coming into your school - into your Foundation year. And I think that's the same for all Foundation teachers having spent a number of years working in those earlier spaces, is that we don't have that one-size-fits-all child who fits into the classroom. So there may be children who can excel mathematically but are really perhaps struggling with their language or their literacy and so we do have a very wide range of children in a mainstream class, as well as in your class. And so picking up on that comment that you made about recognizing where the children are at being able to take them forward in the play I think was, was really exciting. So thank you for that.  

Helen Thanks Liz. 

Liz. Sam, I might go to you now. Because one of the things I think is really exciting is that you're in a brand new school. As you said, you've only been open for six months, of which most of that time was in a lockdown situation. So you've had a very challenging start to your year. But one of the things I think is really exciting is that as a school you made a conscious decision to use, to have that inquiry-based approach. And So I'd really like to hear about that from you and to what you've noticed about the learning in using inquiry and play and how you are thinking about your teaching differently because of that, particularly in relation to that differentiated teaching and learning. 

Sam Birrell (Sam) Sure, thanks Liz. Hi everyone. Thank you to Kim and Liz for inviting me to be part of this webinar. As Liz mentioned, we are in a very different place. Starting off a new school. It's a very exciting venture. And there are lots and lots of things that you need to do to start a school that we'll never have to do again. So a lot of our time has been taken with these tasks. We have made a conscious decision to follow an inquiry path with our learners. We have about 155 students enrolled, about 47 of those are Preps and the rest of the kids we've inherited from other schools. And that has brought its own challenges with it because they've all experienced very different things in terms of learning and what inquiry looks like for them.

I think back to when I was a beginning teacher. And play-based learning for me as a beginning teacher was finishing off work on a Friday afternoon and if you've finished your work then you get some free time and you can choose what you do. And we had a very thematic approach to what we called integrated. It was a planner that got rolled out every two years. The kids had no say in what they were doing. We were in control of everything. The kids had no voice. I've worked in a few schools since that time and have, I think grown and my expectations of learning have changed quite a bit. I think also having my own kids helped with that, seeing the importance of play to them when they were little, when they were toddlers, pre-schoolers, and now that they are both at school. They've also both changed schools this year. So seeing the impact of a different school on them and that school's approach to inquiry. My kids - they love to learn. At their first school it was more of a thematic approach. My daughter did the same things in Year 2 that my son had done in Year 2, three years before her. We knew exactly what was coming up. At this school they've got a lot more say in what they do. They're able to inject their own interests and their passions into what they do. And I can see a change in them at home. My daughter will come home and continue her learning at home. And that's a big change.

So I think that's all helped shape me and the approach that we're trying to take here at Keelonith. We've got a really big opportunity. We've got no history. We've got no existing culture. We're not making change. We're creating something from the ground up and that gives us a really...an amazing opportunity here. As Liz mentioned, we are a new type of school. It's called a supported inclusion school. There are five of us in existence this year. There's I think a couple more opening next year. And that does make us different in some ways. We have two enrolment policies. We have a zone - so we are the local community mainstream school for the families who live within our zone. But our second enrolment policy is that we can take up to 10 percent of our enrolled students if they have a mild intellectual disability. So it's a bit of a...we're called supported - we're an inclusive school but you still have to have an I.D.to come to us if you're outside of zone. And I think that the - we're here to show how inclusion can work.

My background is I started in mainstream primary schools and then I spent the prior four years to coming here, at Concord School, which is also a special school similar to Ashwood. And my passion is really, I want our kids in our community to be able to come to school and be with their peers and to go to school with kids that live down the road from them.

So we have a very flexible approach at Keelonith. We have flexible learning areas. We don't have traditional classrooms with four walls and a door. We've got different spaces, smaller spaces, little nooks where kids can go and work on their own, but they're still part of the group. We've got flexible furniture. 'm sitting on a wobble-stool at the moment. It's my favourite item of seating. I've got one in my office and kids can choose if they want a wobble-stool, if they want to stand at a stand-up workstation. If they want to sit on the floor we've got special little desks that they can sit on the floor with. So we've really tried to - picking up on what Helen said in terms of, we've all had different days and our kids come to school with all different experiences. We are all different learners and we're trying to meet those needs at Keelonith through our flexible approach even just to our furniture. Simple things like that.

And inquiry and differentiation really plays into that. We want our inquiry to be driven by our students. We want their voices to be part of what we're doing. I think if you've got students who are engaged in their learning and they're part - genuinely part of their learning journey, then they're engaged. They're excited, they want to keep going. We've really found that the kids we've inherited, particularly in the older years, the (Year) 4-5-6 kids. When you ask them to, to have some input. When you ask them "What do you want to learn about?" They find it really, really challenging. They're just used to being part of that. 'Well, this is what we're doing today.' They're not used to having that input. We're using a lot of the work of (Michael) Fullan and Kath Murdoch to, to set up our inquiry processes. We're only in our third, well fourth week of the third term of operating so it's still very new to us. But we are really looking at building the inquiry skills of our students. Their ability to ask questions and not just to ask questions, but to ask good questions. What's a good question to inquire about? How do you research? What's a reputable, authentic, trustworthy research source? We want them to be critical researchers. We don't want them to just read something on a screen and take that as given. 'Can you challenge that? Do you agree with that? Can you find that in a different source?'

We're also looking at different ways to record information. We all like to do things in different ways. Some of our kids like to use our digital resources. Others, we're using lotus diagrams with some of them to write on pen and paper.

And then all the different ways to share their learning. And I think that, that's opening our kids eyes up to the different possibilities. There's not one right way. There are different ways that things can be done. That things can be explored has been really eye-opening for a lot of our older kids. We're approaching it in in different ways, in different areas of the school. We are doing something that we call a community inquiry. And that happens in Years 3 to 6 and Prep to 2. So the community inquiry is the shared learning. We have an overall sort of area that we are focusing on. And then the different year levels are looking at it in different ways. The class will be looking at the same topic. We spend the first four-or-so weeks immersing them in that topic. So we're sort of taking the approach of - you don't know if you haven't explored it before. But then we're not allowing our teachers to go and plan the whole term. They're planning the first four-or-so weeks. And then we're getting our students to have input into the areas that they'd like to go and inquire about more. So it's not a set determined enroute for them. For our (Year) 3 to 6s we're running a parallel, what we're calling personal inquiry for them. And that's where we're giving them the opportunity to choose an area that is of interest to them. It can have absolutely nothing to do with the community inquiry. If the community inquiry is about climate change, their personal inquiry could be about something completely different. It's their own personal interests. It's where their passions can come into their education. But we want them to be applying those inquiry skills that we're explicitly teaching them through the community inquiry into their own personal inquiry. So they're applying them themselves. That's - we're aiming for that to start in Year 3. We haven't got there yet, at the moment it's just our (Year) 5-6s that are running that model. And the community inquiry is running across the rest of the school. So we're really trying to build-in that sort of personal involvement of our kids.

For our younger students we're using language experience approach to build their oral language, to build their shared experience. And we're viewing that as a bit of a stepping-stone into where we'd like to go with them in terms of inquiry. We really would like to get into the play-based learning with our early years students. We sort of view that as the launching pad for our students to become inquirers for all of those reasons that Helen was talking about. Learning how to problem-solve those social skills. Collaboration. Just learning from their peers. Being with their peers and problem-solving together.

So we see we're at the start of our journey in terms of kicking this off. But we see that the play-based learning in the early years of our school, will start setting our kids up for those inquiry skills that we're trying to build in them across the rest of their schooling with us. We really want to create some independent, interested, curious, learners who want to know and make sense about their world. We're not here to tell them everything they need to know. We're here to help them understand how they can make sense of their world. So we're at the very starting point of our journey with inquiry and play-based learning.

The differentiation part of that is that we're really building in our kids interests. We're differentiating it through what they are interested in learning, but also the different ways that we can learn different learning styles. The different ways you can present your learning. All of those types of things and we're really trying to make authentic links for them, so that there is a - there's a purpose for their learning. There's a purpose for them creating something to share with their learning. Whether that audience is a younger year level or it could be parents, or the wider community. So that they have a purpose for what they're doing.

So we have a really big philosophy here that - at Keelonith we're all learners. We're never going to get to the end. We're at the start and we're going to keep improving and that's always going to be that improvement with what we're doing. And we're really excited to be part of this webinar because we're keen to hear from Helen and Neisha and tap into that expertise so that we can set things up and launch our play-based approach at Keelonith. 

Liz Kim, what did you - I know you've got some great ideas and I know you can draw some really strong conversations from Sam and Helen so I'll throw to you and then I'd really love to hear from Neisha because I know that Neisha's got such a wealth of things to share. But Kim, what are some of the things that you want to take away or draw out of this conversation? 

Kim Davies (Kim) I think it's interesting the way both Helen and Sam have spoken about how learners need to feel about their learning in order to be successful learners. And that they need to feel safe and they need to feel supported. And it's almost like they need to be accepted for who they are. So to the extent that when we're playing, we are usually very comfortable being ourselves, I think play-based and inquiry learning can give learners that launch pad of confidence that can help them to develop strong senses of being capable as learners. 

So I thought that was a commonality that something that both Helen and, and Sam were talking about. The importance of how play and inquiry and learning to play and learning to inquire can shape young students, young children - people - into, you know, resilient inquirers, resilient learners.

But I'm like you - I want to hear from Neisha, because I know she's been doing some fantastic things at the Ashwood School. 

Liz So Neisha, this sounds like your cue. Tell us about the program that you run and what drives it and how you think - how you're making the connection between play and differentiation. Because this is what it's all about.  

And to me, when we started talking about these modules, these learning modules, the differentiation part of that was so exciting to me because I can just see how it works. So could you share some of that with the rest of the participants? 

Neisha Gange (Neisha) So for us it's been a little bit of a journey I think to get it right in aspects that we wanted it to work so much and how we wanted it to work. And even though we've got a sort of overarching program that we're following it's still different year to year, depending on which class and which students you have in that class. So it is a very flexible approach. But I think play and play-based learning in general is such a powerful tool that we are embracing at Ashwood. And I think it's sort of gaining traction. That a lot more classrooms are starting to use it. So that's very exciting. But to me, I see play and differentiation under the same umbrella. They're so closely linked that they're not actually separate ideas. So like a thorough play program will go hand-in-hand with differentiation.

And I think the start of that for us was that every play activity that you set up for your class needs to have different entry skills and different entry points. And students will choose where they're comfortable to enter at. And that's the start of differentiation. So it's them having a choice and a voice about where they're going to enter because every play activity that you setup will be threatening to some students and less threatening to others if they've had an experience of that already. So I think generally, just by the way you would set up a play activity, the differentiation starts from the setup. And then as students choose where they're going to enter it, then you can sort of join them in their play and you can take them to another level. 

Liz So just to interrupt, how do you think about the play experience you're going to set up? What drives that from a differentiation perspective? 

Neisha Yep. So we have done a separate classroom setup as a playroom. And it's set up with lots of different play stations and little areas where they can play. But it changes depending on student interest at the time. And we have - we started it with the Foundation Year level. But it's - and we sort of track the data from that and we've expanded it to the whole Primary Department, which is Prep to Grade 6. And therefore, we've had to change the play stations depending on which classes, we're getting through and common interests. A range of experiences that they would have every day, so things like a shop and a home corner. That's a really good transition from kinder as well, because most students have experienced that sort of thing from kinder so they will always go there first because they know it. Things like a farm or a hospital. You often get students who have been in hospital a lot who will avoid that station because there is some trauma behind that. So it's just - it's about sort of tracking our students. Where they're at. What they're interested in and what their prior experiences have been. A few times we've set up an airport and holidays and that sort of thing. And probably the older ones who have more play experience will go to them. But the younger ones who may not have been on a plane don't know what to do there and don't know how to role-play that. Yeah, so it's just really keeping track of where all our students are at.

Keeping some data and some assessments and seeing how that all - sort of - impact what stations we're going to put there to start with. But we want to give them a big range of things that they can choose so that they're not always doing the one activity every time. Because if they're doing the one activity every time and it's the same - if they're sitting in the home corner and they make a chocolate cake every time, it's not really play. So it's a repeated routine. So we want to enable them to expand their play over multiple play stations. Even if it's in the classroom, if you're not going into the playroom, set up multiple things that they can have a go at.

And I think that comes in to taking risks. Which I know that Helen and Sam had sort of touched on. But I think taking risks is a big part of the differentiation umbrella. Because if we push too hard, the risk is too big and students shutdown. So we want to push them just a little bit. But see where they're comfortable at first and that's where you need to let them decide their entry point at that play activity. If you push them too hard they're not going to try again. So you just need to push that little bit. You need to model it first. Show them it's okay to do it. Then they'll sort of take a risk by themselves. But at a level that they feel comfortable at. But I think that's a key part of the differentiation, is that they, I still have that control. And that's the control of their learning. And when they're ready to take the next leap, they will. 

Kim I'm curious about how you support kids to make that transition from the activity that they're comfortable with now, to the next activity that might be, you know, a little bit more risky for them. Do you facilitate that or do you just wait for that to happen? 

Neisha We do. I've tried both. I've found that facilitating it by modelling is probably the best thing for the students that I've had. And modelling could be but generally when you come in to the way that I would run a play session, is that we all sit in a circle. I might model one or two different play activities and I'll extend like a play script or extend the storyline for some of the students. I'll scale it back a little bit for others, and I'll use different language depending on which sort of goal I'm targeting. And then I will probably model it a few times, but I will model it differently every time. So that - that if I'm using a doll, the doll doesn't always have to eat cake and then have a cup of tea. So the doll might eat a hotdog and then have a cup of tea. So I'm changing something a little bit every time to help students understand that change is okay. There's no right or wrong and they won't get it wrong. You can do - I don't think that you can do anything wrong in play. And I think that's a big thing because at the moment the world is sort of right or wrong. Play is very grey. And I think that's a very hard concept to understand for a lot of students, isn't there? It's not like maths. You can't get the answer right or wrong. It's just having a go. 

Kim I think - I think you've hit on something really significant there. I think the difference between playing at home when you're not yet a school student. 

Neisha Yeah. 

Kim And that transition to school - it can be really difficult for some students and it can be very challenging for them because all of a sudden the safety and the self-reward, the intrinsic nature of play isn't there anymore, so -yeah, I think sometimes it helps to remember that our pre-school environments are very play-riched intrinsically inquiry-based environments. And it would - there's a lot to be modelled on the back of how we learn before we arrive at school. Which isn't to say that schools don't contribute and scaffold. 

Can I ask you another tricky question? 

Neisha Yeah. 

Kim I'm fascinated because students aren't aware that they're playing. 

Neisha No 

Kim This is one of the mysteries of it, isn't it? And it's one of the wonderments of it. Not only are they not aware that they're playing but they're not aware that they're actually learning - beyond the social skills and social emotional competencies - they're learning academically as well. How do you manage that insertion of academic curriculum into the play experience and how do you differentiate that? 

Neisha Yeah. So that was quite a big change for us as well when we sort of went full steam ahead with a lot more play-based learning than we were doing. We got sort of the whole Primary team involved at that point because it was becoming a Primary Department.... 

Kim Program? 

Neisha Yep, program to start with. We have extended it into the Secondary School because it's done so well. But that looks very different as well. So the Secondaries do it a lot differently to the Primaries, but it's working. 

Kim It works? 

Neisha And in both cases - in both scenarios they don't believe that they're playing I think. But the Primary one - because that's where we started it and that's how we started to roll it out on a bigger scale. We did a lot of talk around curriculum, a lot of talk about data and assessment. And we also looked at a lot of different programs around play and what would suit our school most and what would suit our students most. So we sort of drew on one program mainly and then have edited it and adapted it to suit.... 

Kim You've made it your own. 

Neisha Yeah, we've made it our own. And from that, we sort of have an overarching umbrella of what the program is. And then we've also gone a step further and made written goals. So they're on our student IEPs. Most students will have a play goal on their IEP. And that will come under English or Maths or wherever you think that that student would benefit most, learning through play. We also have, as well as that - you might have class goals. So my class goal for this year was to expand play outside the classroom because my students were really struggling at morning teas and lunchtimes and what to do in that unstructured time. And they can play. They can play inside and it's beautiful to watch. And they've got some language and they're developing well. And So I'm taking the play outside now. So rather than using the setup play areas, or the play resources that we have in the classroom, I'm taking them outside and trying to do that same sort of lesson in the academics like Maths even, outside. So we have an outdoor classroom couple of times a week. And we're really trying to target that they can repeat these activities at play times. But it might be using natural resources outside where they might find them outside and they, they know what to do with them. A stick doesn't just have to stay on the ground because it's a stick. You can use it in your play and you can have fun out there while you're doing it. So I think the way we've differentiated the play and linked it to the academics is through writing some play goals on the IEPs which all our students have. And then also having some class goals which aren't necessarily on the IEPs, but they're sort of separate. But they're things that every student could benefit from. And all the play goals are different. So there's so many. You're not limited in play goals. 

Kim speaks (indistinguishable) 

Neisha Pardon?

Kim They differentiated. The play goals are differentiated. 

Neisha Yeah. Yeah 

Kim Thank you. 

Liz One of the things that I was really interested in picking up on that you mentioned before Neisha, was the way - I like the way you took that for the children who have been on an aeroplane. They really liked that play and for the children who haven't been on an aeroplane, they find that really challenging. How do you - how have you noticed the children supporting that differentiation with their peers to develop that learning and understanding and play conceptualisation from each other because of their different learning experiences or lived experiences. 

Neisha I think that the ones who have had those lived experiences are drawn to those stations straight away and they go there and you can just see the joy on their faces. And I think that draws the other students in who are a bit more sort of challenged by that. That just draws them in and they go and they join the play. They don't hesitate. So they're probably – in those sort of scenarios they're less of a bystander because they can't wait to get in there because it looks like you're having so much fun. And I'm exhausted - after I play, I'm exhausted because it takes so much out of me and it's because we're adults. I think adults are.... 

Kim Out of practice! 

Neisha Yeah. I think we are, we are, we are out of practice and I think we have, we grow up with these ideas that you can't play anymore because you're an adult. But you go in there and you have so much fun. And I think that's the main thing is that if they can see you having fun as well, as well as their peers. I mean the peers are a huge influence in there, if someone else is willing to try it, 'I'm going to give that a go too because I want that experience.' But if you're teacher and then adult can join that play as well, it's just - it's so powerful. I think. 

Kim I loved that you said I'm always so tired after I play. There was no separate - you know

Neisha I'm exhausted! 

Kim But you were - you were the player. That's really powerful I think. You're with the teacher who's also the player! 

Neisha Yeah. Yeah. And I think yeah, adults are very stuck generally in their thinking because we lose a lot of the wonder and the creativity that we had. I think we find creativity in other ways. But we lose a lot of what - And I think once you start to remember, it all comes back. 

Kim I think one of the gifts of Covid has been for many people, the rediscovery of craft. And while crafting is not necessarily playing, I think it's a little - some of us who have picked up some crafts again, have remembered how much learning can happen in a safe and supportive learning environment where you are following an interest. You're developing, when you're moving beyond what you know now, to - to, you know - what you're aiming to learn. 

Neisha Mmm 

Kim Can I ask one last question? 

Neisha Mmm? 

Kim Have you been surprised by what students can do in play? 

Neisha Yeah, I have. I probably - starting on this journey I didn't know – now when I look back, I didn't know what I play was. I thought I did. And I think I've learnt so much, it's blown me away and now I can look for things and I can see play. I see smaller parts of play that I didn't know existed.

I didn't know you had to have stepping-stones in a certain order before you could progress in play. And I didn't know there were so many different parts to play that you might have, like any other subject. You might have perfect writing, but your reading may not be up to - you know, at a high - as high as your writing. And play is exactly the same. So you might - there's so many different parts to play. And when you start - it's like a rollercoaster that you go on when you start exploring play more and you learn all this about it. But yeah, when in the classroom when you see it, it's so exciting to see. It's like recognising another form of curriculum I guess. Another subject. Or is if you see it through a subject. It's just all so exciting to see. And they have, I think they've really come leaps and bounds since starting play-based learning. Because it's not limited to - it's not so defined and sectioned that you have to be - you can only learn when you're sitting down. Or you have to be sitting at the table to learn. You can learn anyway. You can go - you know - on a walk and you can be learning so much. So I think that part of play is also very powerful is that it's not confined to a classroom and it's not confined to your chair that you're sitting on. Yeah, so you can really learn through play all day anywhere. 

Kim Absolutely. And if you're playing all day you probably are learning a great deal. 

Neisha You are - yeah. Sometimes it doesn't look like it and I think - we'll get onto the parents in a minute - but I think that was a big part of my - I was a bit cautious of that because it often - when you're playing it doesn't look like you're always learning. Yeah, I think you are. You're learning with a very authentic experience. 

Kim You wouldn't be so tired if you weren't learning. 

Neisha No

Liz Neisha, before we move on to talk about the parents - that was a great Segway. 

We've had a question from Stephanie - one of our participants, who wanted to get some feedback from you or from, from Helen or Samantha about children with expressive language difficulties. How do you ascertain their level of - or complexity of their play when - when the expressive language is much more difficult to pick - to pick up and - and hear their voice in that play. 

Neisha So we - it can be based on like, play sequences, so it doesn't have to be language based. The assessment side of it doesn't have to be language based. It can be - it can be based on play sequences. So can they - pour the flour into a pot - into a bowl and then stir it and then put it in the oven and then get it out? So you can see that without having to hear their expressive language. A lot of the time, we do have quite a few students with expressive language difficulties that come through. So we can use a lot of visuals. Play sort of leaves open to visuals and that sort of thing.

Sign - we do a lot of sign in the playroom. Yeah, so I think there's a lot that you can assess which doesn't need to be a - and that's probably something else that's a huge benefit - is that it's not always a back and forth conversation where you might be questioning or looking for a certain answer. There doesn't have to be a certain answer. You don't know what answer you're going to get if you do ask something. But it's more about what they're actually doing in their play. If you're assessing sort of a language through play, that might be different and that's when the visuals and things like that might come in. 

Liz I'm going to go back to Helen and Sam and, and get a sense from you about the parents, particularly for you Sam, who's just started in this inquiry program. What are some of the perspectives that you are - that you feel that parents are having because we - we can't hear the parent voice. But you're doing a lot of work with families. What are some of the impressions and the reflections that parents are sharing with you about their own children and their learning. 

Sam Look, we've had some really positive feedback from our families. We were lucky enough to run our three-way conferences the day before we went into remote learning. So we could have those face-to-face conversations with our families. We do also have mini incidental conversations. That's a big thing that I've noticed coming from Concord to here. Being at a Special School that most of our kids were bused in, was very difficult to have those incidental conversations. You didn't see families at the school gate. Back in a community Primary School we have those conversations every day. So we get feedback straightaway. Our families seem to be very happy with how we're traveling. But I think what's been more powerful for me as a person who's been creating this school alongside our Principal, Loren Peavey, is the feedback that we've had from students. And through those three-way conferences, all of our students started that conversation with their families. And the feedback that I got from our (Year) 5-6 teacher - we have one (Year) 5-6 group this year - it just blew me away. The kids were given some time - a week or so to prepare what they wanted to share with their families. They had to put together some sort of presentation and choose which - which pieces of work they wanted to share. And the pride that they took in sharing those pieces was, was amazing but the way they communicated to their families about how they were feeling about being a Keelonith student was the best feedback I've ever received as an educator. They were saying things like '...at this school I have a voice'.'...at this school I am heard. I do have input'. '...I can choose what.' Even choosing what they we're going to share at their three-way conference. To me, they were really simple things that we can provide our, our kids, but for those students to turn around and tell us 'that this school makes me feel different. It makes me feel like I'm part of this.' The feedback from families has been very positive, but I think the feedback from the students has been the most powerful thing that we have received. And if we've had that impact on kids, essentially in two terms - and for them to recognize that we are doing things in a different way and that they are feeling connected and part of the journey, then that's telling me that we're on the right path and that inquiry - the approach we're taking is having a positive impact. Because really, you don't - I don't think we can measure it straight away. I think it's going to take a few years of us doing this to look back on. We don't have data to track yet, all of those types of things. But that immediate feedback from our families, but most importantly from our students has been really powerful. 

Liz Helen, you've been doing this for a long time, for much longer and also you've been - what I think is really exciting is that you're taking this play-based inquiry model right through to your secondary school students and so play is not something that just happens in the Prep year. Which I think is really, really exciting. What is some of the - some of the feedback that parents have been telling you, particularly about their children and how their children are learning in your journey? 

Helen Thanks Liz. Look, we get lots of opportunities for parents to come and have chats with us about their children. So I'll talk about two things. One, I'll go back to later about the Course we ran for parents about the Learn to Play Program.

But our parents have noticed that their children are actually playing. And I think for our parents they have a concept that their children - of what is play? And that's been changing over time. So years ago children would come over for a play and they would play out in the sandpit, or they'd play in the kitchen or they'd do some craft activities. Whereas now the children - what we're seeing is that our children, when they go to a party, can play with each other - they can take turns, they can wait for their turn. They can wait in a line. They can show some imagination in their play. And our parents probably haven't seen this before. And they might not have been expecting this type of creative play and they might not have been expecting a language that comes with play.  

And the flexible thinking that comes with play. And it's really important for our children as they progress through the school that they learn to be independent and flexible thinkers. And parents are noticing this and they're noticing it with the development of their language skills. So we're getting interesting feedback. Because of course, parents don't want to think that their children are playing at school. They want to think that their children are learning at school. And so that's about teachers talking about play with the parents as a regular occurrence. It's not just something that happens at recess or lunchtime, or before school or after school. It happens during school. And the more opportunities they have to practice those skills, the more beneficial it is. And parents are seeing that on weekends when they take their children to sporting activities or take them to other childrens' activities as well. They'll see this growth in their skills. 

The other thing we wanted to talk about was the - the Learn to Play for Parents. A Parenting Course that we run. And - and I think what we saw then, and Neisha and I were talking about this today, was that we have fond memories of one Mum. And she actually didn't think that she would be able to ever play with her child and that the play wouldn't ever be reciprocal. And in participating in the course, she took some homework home to play and she would come back and say 'I did it!. We did it together, and we can actually play together now. This is something new that I can do with my child. And I didn't think I'd ever be able to do that with my child. And so I'm looking forward to the next class, to know what the next skill I'm going to learn how to do.' So - so that was a huge - a huge turning point for us, I think, when we realised the significance of the playing program at school but also the parent program, which was going to give them skills. 

Liz Kim, I might go back to you. What are some of the things that you would like to take away to share with our -our more mainstream teachers from this - from this conversation today, that we can take into other classrooms. The key things that you - what are some of the things that you think that you could take away into a mainstream classroom? 

Kim I think it's just the power of play Liz. The power of play as a learning - as a way of learning. And agency and voice are very topical at the moment, but play intrinsically has agency and voice built into it because kids are going to be students, children are going to be selecting and intrinsically motivated to undertake, as Neisha was describing, 'What will I do today? There's this range of play tasks available for me, or I might just choose to generate my own version of a play event, based on whatever'. So I think it's just the power of play to facilitate multi-dimensional learning. Learning – learning about self, learning about others, learning academically. But for me, it's - it's predominantly the future focus of it. That we keep hearing that in the future we're going to need to be flexible and resilient and creative. And play is a way of learning to be that sort of a human being. So for me, it's the powerfulness of play to prepare students to feel good about themselves, to feel capable. Prepare students to respect the differences in their - in their peers, but to prepare students for a future in which they'll need to be good at playing. Life will be a very play-rich experience for all of us as we progress out of the way we do things now. So yeah, it's just the power of play to prepare learners to be successful. 

Liz I think the thing that really struck me and it came from you Neisha, is that understanding of playful pedagogy. And I think the understanding, the pedagogy of play is different to having a playful pedagogy and as play-based inquiry teachers, we have to be playful. And that we have to join in the play and be part of that play and share the enjoyment and, fun of the play with the children. And I think to me that's the big takeaway from today. But Helen, Sam, Neisha - is there something that you want to finish up with before we, we wind up with for - for the end of the day? 

Helen I think it's really important that as teachers that you actually make time for play in your busy timetable. And in order to do that, you need to be brave because it's stepping out of the norm. So you need to actually talk about play with other teachers and talk about it with parents. And I think changing your teaching to sometimes being an observer and sometimes being an influencer. And I think that's perhaps a change of shift. And that can happen if you allow play to be part of your timetable. And it's - it's not something you get around to doing. It's something that becomes a priority for you. That would be a message. And I think in doing that though, as teachers we all know that something like this takes some preparation. So allow some time to prepare. Perhaps campaign in your school to get some preparation for play time, built into your professional timetable. Think that's really important. We can say this is going be wonderful, but then who's going to set it up? Who's going to prepare? Who's going to manufacture? Who's going to design and arrange for all these things to happen? So it takes some thinking and talking but the more you do it, as Neisha has said, the more you will be wanting to do it all the time in your classrooms. 

Liz Thanks Helen.

Sam, what's your takeaway message? 

Sam I think just to backup what Helen has said, my mantra here is that good planning is good teaching. And if you put thought into what you're doing and there is a purpose behind what you're, what you're doing, then good things will come from that. I also think that the skills our kids are going to learn in those foundational use through play, are going to go on with them throughout the rest of their schooling life, but also outside of that. Because their skills around collaboration and the social connection and the - all of those things are transferable. And that's what we're trying to instil here at Keelonith. Is that these skills that we're explicitly teaching are, transferable and the foundation they get in those early years, you know, comes through as they grow and develop. So I think it's - it takes a lot of planning and a lot of thought into it. And I think it's also part of the, you know, you need to have that structure behind you. You need to have the resourcing and the availability of those resources to do it and do it properly. And that's what we're finding is our challenge. That's what we're up to now. And having a commitment to that as a, as a leadership group, I hope, will - will put us in a good place to build something that will hopefully emulate what Helen and Neisha are able to achieve at Ashwood.

Liz Thanks Sam.

And Neisha, I think it's only fitting that we finish up with you. 

Neisha I just think it was - it's been a long journey, so we haven't just ended up here. And it has taken a lot of people working together and a lot of work. And it is very daunting, So once you start and you realise what a mess, play can be, and what a mess your room is after play, and then to learn how to clean up after play is another thing. But I think it's definitely worth - it's definitely worth starting and it's going to be a long journey and I don't think I'll ever stop learning about play. It's one of those things that will keep changing as we get different students and a changing set of dynamics in your classroom from year to year. Play is going to be different. But even like - even today, I think you just see lots of little special things once you start learning about play and you start teaching it. Like, even just today at lunchtime, it sort of blew me away. We have a huge puddle on the oval and it just keeps getting bigger. And I think there's a lot of jumping in puddles at the moment to make it bigger. But, we've got one boat in the sandpit at the moment, I don't know where the rest have gone. And one of my students, came screaming up and I said 'Oh my goodness, what's wrong?' He said 'I need the boat, I need the boat! 'And I said 'What do you need the boat for?' And he said 'For the lake! The lake on the oval! 'And so just suddenly the puddle on the oval, that three weeks ago, was just a puddle has turned into a lake and there were about - probably fifteen of them, playing in a lake and they'd thought they'd planned the play. They'd come up to get a boat. Someone else was looking for a stick to make a flag for the boat. Like - it was working together. It was just such a good example of - not the academic side of the play - but the social side of the play where they were engaging each other in a common game and a common interests and they were working together. And the language was amazing, that we were getting out of them. So I think if I hadn't started sort of learning about play, I wouldn't have noticed that that was such a big thing. Yeah. Anyway, that's it from me. 

Liz Thank you, everybody for today and I do agree with you. It's important to keep chipping away and to be brave. And I think one of the things that - that's really come out of today is that as teachers, we have to be brave. We have to be brave to become part of the play. We have to be brave to recognise that we need to learn about the play and we need to be brave to give it a go and start. So there - I think that's really exciting. So thank you, everyone. I can't thank you enough for giving up your time today. And thank you to all the participants who - who joined in. Hopefully it was useful to you.

This is the last of the webinars for these, for these workshops, which is really sad because they've been really exciting. So we hope you've enjoyed today. So thank you very, very much, everybody.